Brandon "BMac" McCaghren has built a career across nearly every corner of the Jiu-Jitsu business. A black belt under Eddie Bravo, whom he trained under from white belt on, he runs 10th Planet Decatur in Alabama, has a substantial online Jiu-Jitsu business and runs a grappling tournament promotion. He opened his gym while still a blue belt, which he now calls a terrible idea, and grew it into a healthy school, almost entirely of adults, that he describes as being under 300 members.
He and Red Belt Podcast host Brian "Barn Cat" Debes have been friends for more than a decade, since both were, in Debes' words, broke and unremarkable. That history makes for an unusually candid conversation about what actually moves a martial arts business forward and what a gym owner should want from it in the first place.
Any System Beats No System
Asked what single piece of advice he would give his younger self, McCaghren didn't hesitate: get systems in place as fast as possible, even if they're bad, and refine them over time.
Winging it, he said, caps your upside. Without systems, an owner is always stressed, and any help they hire is set up to fail. As McCaghren puts it, when you've never defined the job, it isn't the employee who did a bad job; you never told them what to do.
For a gym, the essential systems include:
- ✓Lead handling and follow-up
- ✓Sales and closing
- ✓Goal setting with students
- ✓Handling problems as they arise
- ✓Day-to-day operations like cleaning the mats or selling a rash guard
- ✓Marketing tasks like posting to social media or uploading a video
His rule of thumb is simple: anything that happens in your business more than once needs a standard operating procedure. Start by writing down the steps you would follow if you did a task perfectly, such as answering a phone call from a prospective student. Follow it next time, note what didn't work, and revise. Debes added a shortcut: once you've written your process down, compare it with what high-performing schools do. For gyms in particular, the steps of the member journey (lead, appointment, show rate, handling no-shows and reschedules) tend to look very similar across successful businesses.
Both men noted that systems are also what give an owner freedom. A self-employed owner with no systems can't take a week off, and an unexpected illness of a few days can put the school at risk. "Systems is the only way to set you free," Debes said.
Being a Great Black Belt Isn't a Business Plan
Debes asked: what if blue-belt McCaghren had been handed all his current Jiu-Jitsu and teaching skill, but no business knowledge?
McCaghren's answer was that it would help, but not enough. A great teacher can build a gym that pays the bills, he said, but without business skills it rarely grows much further. He has watched skilled, personable black belts stay stuck for years: a couple of people sign up, a couple quit, and over time the gym plateaus somewhere around 60 to 100 members without ever reaching the point where the owner can hire help or take a vacation.
"Build it and they will come" is only partly true, he said: some people will come, but most won't stay. Debes added that as bigger operators enter Jiu-Jitsu, the business skill needed to compete will only increase.
Choosing the Right Business Partner
McCaghren's business partner is his wife, Lindsay, and he credits their opposite strengths as one of the biggest factors in his success. He calls himself "head in the clouds" (the big-picture optimist) and her "hands in the dirt" (the person who thrives on execution). Each covers the other's weaknesses.
He pointed to the book Rocket Fuel, which the couple read together, and its premise that successful partnerships pair a visionary with an executor. The partnership only works if the visionary also does real work; the point is that day-to-day minutiae paralyze one personality type, while open-ended innovation paralyzes the other.
Both acknowledged the industry's partnership horror stories. Debes cautioned against the common setup where a Muay Thai coach and a Jiu-Jitsu coach team up mainly to afford rent, suggesting a sublease is often better. McCaghren's advice: don't go into business with someone you don't know well. Even a sole owner, he argued, is effectively partnered with their employees, so being thoughtful to work with matters.
Decide What Kind of Gym You Actually Want
One of the most valuable parts of the conversation was McCaghren's honesty about changing his goals. He once set out to build a gym that would gross a million dollars a year. After a couple of years on that path, he realized it wasn't the school he wanted. As the gym grew, he felt he was losing the personal connection with each student that drew him to running a gym in the first place.
So he pulled back. Today his gym does no advertising and no social media posting; it simply handles the leads that come in naturally. Its systems are built around culture and student experience rather than maximizing revenue. He is clear that this only works because he earns his living from his other businesses, and that an owner who depends on the gym for income needs much tighter, growth-focused systems.
Debes framed the two paths he sees among very large gyms: schools that sign up huge volumes of new members to outrun high churn, and schools whose culture keeps churn low and generates referrals. A highly satisfied membership means fewer cancellations and more word-of-mouth, though both agreed location matters; a reputation-only model is easier in a major city than in a small town.
The Power of Making People Feel Cared For
Asked about his "superpower," McCaghren named interpersonal relationships: genuinely caring about people and making sure they feel it. Debes argued it is a learnable skill, pointing to McCaghren's communication training through seminary and to how traditional schools train staff to talk with students. McCaghren agreed communication can be improved, even if his warmth comes naturally.
Key Takeaways
- ✓Build systems early, even imperfect ones, and refine them each time you use them.
- ✓Anything that happens more than once in your business deserves a written procedure.
- ✓Technical skill alone tends to plateau a gym; business skill is what breaks through.
- ✓Choose partners with complementary strengths, and know them well before you commit.
- ✓Decide intentionally what kind of gym you want; growth goals should match your life and income model.
- ✓Low churn and strong culture drive referrals, but communication is a skill your whole team can train.
Listen to the Full Episode
There's much more in this conversation between two longtime friends, including a few hard-won lessons about inventory. Listen on Spotify or watch on YouTube. If you're ready to put systems behind your lead follow-up, onboarding and retention, Red Belt Software helps martial arts school owners keep students longer and grow.