Johnny Buck is not the person you'd expect to preach a gentle on-ramp. A former Division I wrestler at The Citadel with a catch wrestling background, a Jiu-Jitsu black belt and a gym that has produced amateur world titles in Muay Thai, he spent years believing that if something wasn't working, the answer was to go harder. That approach left his North Carolina gym stuck at around 18 members for four years.
Today his gym has more than 400 members and a team of about 12 staff, many of them full-time. He says he reached the top 1% of the industry within three years of getting serious about the business, and that the gym did well through COVID by doing things differently. Buck also coaches other gym owners, which is how he and Red Belt Podcast host Brian "Barn Cat" Debes ended up, as Debes puts it, each other's coach.
What makes Buck worth hearing is that he borrows systems from outside martial arts and tests them relentlessly. His conclusion: culture and customer experience, not coaching quality alone, are what build a large, healthy gym.
Running a Business, Not Buying a Job
Buck is blunt about why so many gyms struggle: many owners really just want to teach, but teaching is only one piece of the business. His first gym was in the back of a friend's fitness facility with no heat or air conditioning, and when he went full-time in 2017 he says he was $64,000 in debt.
The turning point came when he hired a business coach. He says the gym went from about 30 members to 60 and then 90 within the first three months. His advice to anyone who only wants to coach is to coach somewhere else; ownership is for people who want to make a broader impact and are willing to build the systems that make it possible. He also rejects the idea that profit is at odds with the art: money simply gives a gym more options to help more people.
The First Impression Starts Long Before the Mat
Buck maps every member through the same life cycle: lead, scheduled trial, member and, eventually, former member. His team designs each stage deliberately.
The first impression is usually social media and advertising, so his gym's content is clean, fun and welcoming. Buck says you never see blood in it, and fight photos are highlight shots rather than someone taking a punch. That matches his membership: of more than 400 members, he estimates fewer than 20 compete. He notes that most adults come to Jiu-Jitsu to get in shape, so the marketing reflects why people actually show up.
Follow-up is persistent. Leads receive seven points of contact by call, text, email and video before moving to a monthly or quarterly call-back list. Once a trial is booked, the team sends a confirmation text the day before. On the morning of the class, a staff member records a short selfie video in front of the building showing landmarks and parking, and asks for the prospect's T-shirt size so a shirt is waiting at check-in. Buck says new members have told him that video is the reason they walked in.
A Curated Trial and Onboarding Process
Inside, staff follow a dress code, wear branded shirts and greet visitors within five seconds. The space is clean, well lit and has music playing, because long-time practitioners forget how intimidating a gym is to a newcomer.
The trial itself follows a set sequence:
- ✓A face-to-face consultation that repeats the goal questions asked on the phone, because people open up more in person once rapport is built.
- ✓A "perfect tour" that connects the facility to the prospect's goals. A chalkboard "wins and gratitude" wall where members post their successes lets staff point to a real member who lost weight when talking to someone with the same goal.
- ✓A matched training partner so the first class is a good experience.
- ✓The three S's applied to every class: sweat, smiles and skills.
- ✓A no-pressure close that asks what they thought and whether the program will help them reach their goals.
At the time of recording, Buck said the gym had closed nine of nine trials that month. A curated 30-day onboarding follows, and the team is extending it to 90 days. He pushes back on the old-school belief that people who need encouragement aren't serious; many long-term members needed multiple follow-ups just to walk in. "Try and be Chick-fil-A, do not try and be McDonald's," he tells his team, adding that they're competing with top-tier customer experiences, not the dojo down the street.
Core Values, Leadership and Staff Culture
Buck has spent roughly five years focused on culture, and he treats core values as the filter for every decision. If option A aligns with the values and option B doesn't, the answer is A, even if B makes more money in the short term. He calls the alternative "shiny thing syndrome," and cites a fitness kickboxing program that made money but repeatedly pulled the gym away from its mission.
Values only work if leaders live them. Buck's gym mission includes "being the example on and off the mats," and he believes most company values fail because leadership doesn't model them. Building culture also means removing "weeds," including the high performer who isn't acting with integrity, and creating enough psychological safety for staff to raise problems.
His practical habits include a weekly 30-minute, non-work conversation with staff, a few hours a week in the gym simply being available, a monthly all-staff meeting with food, celebrating birthdays and work anniversaries, and occasionally covering a class so an instructor can train.
Almost every hire has come from inside the gym. New staff follow a 30-60-90 day training plan with clear expectations at each stage. He prefers people motivated by impact over money, and says he could run the gym more profitably but prioritizes culture. He's so convinced of its importance that in a new venture he's starting with a partner, defining core values is the very first task.
Key Takeaways
- ✓If you only want to coach, ownership may not be the right path; owning a gym means building systems.
- ✓Market to the people who actually join; most adults want fitness and community, not fights.
- ✓Use multi-touch follow-up and personal touches like a pre-trial selfie video to get prospects through the door.
- ✓Script the full trial: greeting, consultation, goal-based tour, matched partner and a low-pressure close.
- ✓Write down your core values, make decisions by them and model them as a leader.
- ✓Invest real time in staff relationships and hire from within when you can.
Listen to the Full Episode
Johnny Buck's conversation with Brian Debes is packed with candid detail on sales, staff and culture. Listen on Spotify or watch on YouTube. And if you want systems that help you follow up with leads, onboard new members and keep them longer, Red Belt Software helps martial arts school owners improve student retention and grow.